Miller's play style & pack line defense - Topic moved from Nico thread

[Liquidated]

Moved all the posts from the Nico points predictions thread here since it was a debate about Miller's play style.

Stop drinking the Liquid. Nico is better than Lonzo Ball right now today.

slower play = fewer offensive opportunities = fewer points = fewer assists

Miller's system is the ultimate cock blocker for player stats.

Speed, athleticism and talent mean less at Arizona than most any other school. 

[arxpert]

We are going to play fast paced offense and lockdown defense this year. Book it.

[Liquidated]

We are going to play fast paced offense and lockdown defense this year. Book it.

literally not at all possible with the pack line. You literally cannot run.

[KansasCityCats]

I think the pack-line is a defensive scheme.  It should affect the overall PPG, but not the style of offense.

[Liquidated]

I think the pack-line is a defensive scheme.  It should affect the overall PPG, but not the style of offense.

Did you want to re-think that?

ANY defense effects the style of offense you play. This is basketball 101, perhaps even remedial basketball.

Transition is only possible of you transition faster than your opponent. When 4 players are within 16 feet of the basket, there are limited outlet options for a defensive rebounds...this is a classic component of the pack line - especially if you send all four of the rebound - which Miller has in some years. 

[KansasCityCats]

Again...transition basketball (or lack thereof) affects the total PPG...but not your offensive efficiency. 

Higher shooting percentages and opportunities at the FT line are determined by offensive schemes, not the pack-line defense.

[Liquidated]

Again...transition basketball (or lack thereof) affects the total PPG...but not your offensive efficiency. 

Higher shooting percentages and opportunities at the FT line are determined by offensive schemes, not the pack-line defense.

KC - always respect your knowledge and must assume that we are talking about two different things.

So I consider 'playing fast' or 'playing slow' or 'half-court offense' or 'run and gun' etc  to be styles of offense. They are not offenses in themselves and anyone one of them can be efficient or inefficicent depending on how well they are executed.

My point was not about efficiency or the offensive scheme that determines them. My point was to respond to someone who wrote that we were going to 'play fast' or 'run' this year.

1. Miller has had some of the most elite players of the past decade and never once played fast or run.
2. When you play the pack line defense you cannot run. If you play Paul Westphal style you send Hank Gathers to the board and he has his choice of four players streaking down court to throw an outlet pass to. If you play Miller's pack line, you send four guys to the board or at least have 4 guys within 16 feet of the basket when one of them grabs the rebound...so unless the other team is stoned out of their gourds, you literally can't fast break out of a pack-line D. No fast break means we are not gonna run. 

That is completely independent of how efficient you are once you get into your 1/2 court offense- whether you run high-low post Wooden type offense, or high ball screen or what ever...the point is you cannot beat the other team down the floor from the Pack line D - therefore it is literally not possible for us to 'run' or play fast on most possessions.  Sometimes we get a steal or the other guys are slow to get back...but we've seen player after player, brilliant in the open court (Nick Johnson, MoMo, Fogg, Simmons, Stanimal, Gordon, Hollis-Jefferson) and yet we did not use them much as open court players because they were stuck in a pack line D. 

STYLE of defense always influences what you can or cannot do on offense. How efficient you are at doing those things is a totally different point.

[Liquidated]

This will be the only time I address you because of your well established douchebaggery, but don't you dare try to take my observation on Miller's offense down your perverted rabbit hole of inane blabbering and scattershot shitposts.

So you cannot take a compliment?  I thought you made great point.

But since you are not addressing me - there is a reason Miller's players do not have higher averages. It is not perverted, blabbering nor scattershot. But it is because Miller is playing a mid 80's, mid major offense. Pre-analytics. Designed to compensate when playing more talented and taller teams...only....we have the height and the talent...

[KansasCityCats]

I get it.  Every year, Miller emphasizes (in the offseason) that he wants to pick up the tempo.  It rarely happens, but our offense has been solid in the past. 

Our points per game don't necessarily suffer, as Arizona still maintained a decent average:

2017-18: 31st
2016-17: 77th
2015-16: 17th
2014-15: 18th
2013-14: 93rd
2012-13: 36th
2011-12: 128th
2010-11: 22nd
2009-10: 94th

It's nothing compared to Lute's teams, however the offense is efficient and our defense has been ranked in the Top-15 for a majority of Miller's seasons...which puts less pressure on the team to score.

Hoping we can dominate on BOTH sides of the ball this year!  Nico will make a huge difference.

[PBCatfan]

I agree generally if Liquid is arguing Miller needs to up the tempo. If we have the individual defenders on the perimeter, the pack-line is great but it does nothing in terms of letting our length and athleticism terrorize passing lanes. Getting those easy points off of steals is something I have missed during the Miller era and has a big impact on ppg, possessions/game, and offensive efficiency.

Not sure that belongs in the Nico thread but if Nico can hit 35 footers with consistency our defense wont matter much.