As of Jan. 10 Arizona's Quad 1 wins = 0
Currently, there are 83 teams with Quadrant 1 win(s).
Remaining Q1 Opportunities = 7 [Oregon (H), Stanford (A), Colorado (H), UW (A), ASU (A), Oregon St. (A), USC (A)]
* Teams close to cutoff/falling out: Colorado (28 Net) @ Home and USC (72) Away
Michigan St (Big 10) had/has a total of 18 Q1 opportunities.
Quadrant 2 wins and remaining opportunities: 3 and 5
For Comparison Purposes - Pac 12 teams Q1 wins:
5 - Oregon
2 - Colorado, USC
1 - Stanford, UW, Utah, OSU, ASU, UCLA
0 - Arizona, WSU, California
We are making March Madness unless the NCAA bans us from it somehow which won't happen. Full statement, 100% confidence.
What's the criteria for neutral court games to count as Quad 1 win? I know at home it's beating a team with a NET of 1-30 and road is 1-75 but is there a formula for neutral court games? Well we have another opportunity tomorrow night to get one at Oregon State but with our strong NET ranking and if they win the conference regular season then I believe we are a 3/4 seed come March. It's time to reel off about 5 straight and like 9 of the next 10 and get a few Quad 1 wins in there too
anyone that thinks we aren't making the tournament is out of their damn mind.
We are playing for seeding. I'd say we are probably a 6 or 7 seed right now. Lots of games left but had we not lost to St. John's or Oregon we would probably be a 2 or 3 seed
Quote from: arxpert on January 11, 2020, 10:37:16 AM
We are making March Madness unless the NCAA bans us from it somehow which won't happen. Full statement, 100% confidence.
I never said we would not make the tourney. The question is seeding. The higher the seed the better teams we are playing in the first weekend; especially the second game. I am not comfortable this team can win it's first game unless its playing a 13+ seed. The most upsets are from the 11 and 12 seeds, which is who we will play if we are a 5/6 seed. Then in the second game you play the 3 or 4 seed in the Region.
Quote from: TennesseeCat36 on January 11, 2020, 12:40:38 PM
What's the criteria for neutral court games to count as Quad 1 win? I know at home it's beating a team with a NET of 1-30 and road is 1-75 but is there a formula for neutral court games? Well we have another opportunity tomorrow night to get one at Oregon State but with our strong NET ranking and if they win the conference regular season then I believe we are a 3/4 seed come March. It's time to reel off about 5 straight and like 9 of the next 10 and get a few Quad 1 wins in there too
Net 1-50
Quote from: TennesseeCat36 on January 11, 2020, 12:40:38 PM
What's the criteria for neutral court games to count as Quad 1 win? I know at home it's beating a team with a NET of 1-30 and road is 1-75 but is there a formula for neutral court games? Well we have another opportunity tomorrow night to get one at Oregon State but with our strong NET ranking and if they win the conference regular season then I believe we are a 3/4 seed come March. It's time to reel off about 5 straight and like 9 of the next 10 and get a few Quad 1 wins in there too
The NET loves Arizona mostly because a good number of their sources (KP, BPI, SAG etc..) like our efficiencies, SOS, non-conference record and win margin (capped at +10). When it comes to seeding though, the 2 most important factors are Q1 wins and Q3 and 4 losses. We really need Q1 wins in a bad way and they are not many left. Especially if Colorado falls below 30 and OSU falls below 75. Colorado is now right at 30 (the cutoff between Q1 and Q2).
Update Jan. 12
Quad. 1 = 0-4 [6 Q1 Opportunities left (2 Home, 4 Away)]
Quad. 2 = 2-1 [5 Q2 Opps left (4 Hm, 1 Aw)]
Road = 0-3
Conference Q1 wins
5-Oregon
2-Colorado, Oregon State, USC
1-Stanford, Washington, ASU, UCLA
0- Arizona, WSU, Cal
Id say 10 losses would get us in the 8/9 seed area. If we only lose 2-3 more games this year i'd say most likely in the 4-5-6 area if we lack the combo conference title and/or conference tourney title.
Add a Pac12 conf title and Tourney title would be still as high as a 3 given the strength of the Pac this year and lack of the Quadrant wins you are speaking of. Either way we will have the chance to dance and play out the dream.
Quote from: arxpert on January 13, 2020, 11:26:33 PM
Id say 10 losses would get us in the 8/9 seed area. If we only lose 2-3 more games this year i'd say most likely in the 4-5-6 area if we lack the combo conference title and/or conference tourney title.
Add a Pac12 conf title and Tourney title would be still as high as a 3 given the strength of the Pac this year and lack of the Quadrant wins you are speaking of. Either way we will have the chance to dance and play out the dream.
We have zero chance for a 4 seed, because we have zero chance at losing only 2-3 more games. We probably have a ceiling of 12-6 and a floor of 10-8 in conference.
Wins: Utah, USC, UCLA, at Cal, at Stanford, OSU, Oregon, at UCLA, UW, WSU
Losses: Colorado, at ASU, at UW, at WSU, at USC
We go 1-1 in the Pac 12 tourney and end the year at 22-10 with 2-3 Q1 wins.
Enter the tourney as a 7-9 seed and lose in the 1st weekend.
The title of this thread kinda saddens me. Arizona's showing in March has been dismal the last four seasons, and each year I hope again the Cats can do something postseason. One sweet sixteen, two humiliating first round exits to Wichita St and Buffalo, plus a no show. That is not progressing. Lute had us in the ncaa's for 23 postseasons in a row. Now we have to cross our fingers that three potential draft first rounders and a coach who's been here over a decade can get us a 7-9 seed. When they've yet to show they can win a road game or beat a ranked team.
"Just get there and with some luck, who knows what they can do!" - you say? When has our luck been on the right side of the bounce? If we fail postseason again, we lose 6 or so guys and start with a whole new batch again next year who struggle to learn the packline. But we look good in our OOC vs the creampuffs and so us fans get all excited til we fail to win vs any team with a pulse. And we'll wait for the next big game wishing we can beat someone good so it will verify our dreams of making it to the new low bar of a sweet 16. Cuz God forbid any Zona fan should expect more.
Rinse and repeat.
I don't count losses until they happen. You might end up surprised. Miller has 5 titles in 10 years for a reason right? Some of which came in those seasons the above poster is tilting about :)
PAC titles? You make me laugh, thanks I need a good laugh!
Arizona has NEVER won a Pac title in football. Winning 50% of your conference championships against a Pac-12 that doesn't generally have more than 1-2 cupcakes is an impressive accomplishment.
As long as the fans are engaged & excited on an annual basis, Miller is doing something right. As Walton constantly pounds into our brains, Arizona has led the league in attendance for 30-something years (which says a lot about our fanbase AND coaching staffs).
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 16, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
PAC titles? You make me laugh, thanks I need a good laugh!
Interesting take. You do realize that there's life away from the Dance, don't you. Winning a conference title, regardless of the conference, is an accomplishment, one the players will remember the rest of their lives, particularly when they look at the ring they earned. All conference champions but one end up falling short of the ultimate goal. Should we put a stop to conference play? Just curious--How many national championships did you win in your years as a hoopster? If none, maybe you should sit this one out.
Quote from: KansasCityCats on January 17, 2020, 06:38:01 AM
Arizona has NEVER won a Pac title in football. Winning 50% of your conference championships against a Pac-12 that doesn't generally have more than 1-2 cupcakes is an impressive accomplishment.
As long as the fans are engaged & excited on an annual basis, Miller is doing something right. As Walton constantly pounds into our brains, Arizona has led the league in attendance for 30-something years (which says a lot about our fanbase AND coaching staffs).
Yes and yes.
You do realize that the PAC is a weak Basketball conference over the last 10 years. One final four team over the last 17 years. The same people that make a big deal about PAC championships are the same people that discredit Kansas for the same reasons. As for Johnny's statement about my Basketball accomplishments what does that have to do with anything?
Quote from: Deb on January 14, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
The title of this thread kinda saddens me. Arizona's showing in March has been dismal the last four seasons, and each year I hope again the Cats can do something postseason. One sweet sixteen, two humiliating first round exits to Wichita St and Buffalo, plus a no show. That is not progressing. Lute had us in the ncaa's for 23 postseasons in a row. Now we have to cross our fingers that three potential draft first rounders and a coach who's been here over a decade can get us a 7-9 seed. When they've yet to show they can win a road game or beat a ranked team.
"Just get there and with some luck, who knows what they can do!" - you say? When has our luck been on the right side of the bounce? If we fail postseason again, we lose 6 or so guys and start with a whole new batch again next year who struggle to learn the packline. But we look good in our OOC vs the creampuffs and so us fans get all excited til we fail to win vs any team with a pulse. And we'll wait for the next big game wishing we can beat someone good so it will verify our dreams of making it to the new low bar of a sweet 16. Cuz God forbid any Zona fan should expect more.
Rinse and repeat.
Given all that you've presented, and for the sake of your mental health, now might be a good time to cut ties. Because rinsing and repeating a mostly successful outcome, one that may not be going away anytime soon, is not such a bad option. Sometimes, just being grateful for what you have, instead of coveting what others have, is in your best interest.
Rinse and repeat first round exits and not being invited to the NCAA at all is not a great outcome. A top tier program doesn't Perron to the level the the Cats have over the past 6 years. All the Miller homers need to open their eyes and see the truth. I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong about Miller and the state of the program, when the direction changes.
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:45:09 AM
You do realize that the PAC is a weak Basketball conference over the last 10 years. One final four team over the last 17 years. The same people that make a big deal about PAC championships are the same people that discredit Kansas for the same reasons. As for Johnny's statement about my Basketball accomplishments what does that have to do with anything?
. . . and you do realize that most of the D-1 conferences are even weaker than the Pac, and only a few are stronger. Yet they all play out the season in the hope of winning a conference title and collecting that championship ring. The fact that they don't win the Big One doesn't and won't diminish that accomplishment.
Accomplishments--and failures--have everything to do with the point I'm trying to make. For the players, it's the journey they'll remember . . . for the fans, it's the bottom line, and for many fans, that's a huge disappointment.
If you played the game and earned the memories that came with winning and losing, I think you're in a better position to be objective.
Nice take Johnny. Maybe I need to enjoy the ride and worry less about the outcome less.
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
Rinse and repeat first round exits and not being invited to the NCAA at all is not a great outcome. A top tier program doesn't Perron to the level the the Cats have over the past 6 years. All the Miller homers need to open their eyes and see the truth. I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong about Miller and the state of the program, when the direction changes.
. . . and we've deserve better because?
Count your blessings, we could be Illini fans, or Marquette Warrior enthusiasts, or even North Carolina fans who regularly experience feast and famine. You, me, none of us have earned shit. We've been spoiled, fans in the right place at the right juncture. All good things come to an end. We've got it better than most, you may come to realize that someday. As a soon-to-be-70-year-old man, who grew up in the Midwest and followed the Chicago Cubs through decades of failures, I already have.
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 09:15:20 AM
Nice take Johnny. Maybe I need to enjoy the ride and worry less about the outcome less.
It sure as hell can't hurt.
QuoteWe have zero chance for a 4 seed, because we have zero chance at losing only 2-3 more games. We probably have a ceiling of 12-6 and a floor of 10-8 in conference.
you could be right about the 12-6 record, but to say there's zero chance, well that's just your opinion man
I made the prediction pre-conference that we could easily be 3-3, waiting until we go to McKale North to find out, then we can wait to see how your guesses do
our upside is closer to 4 losses IMHO, but I do agree with you that we could end10-8 (OU, OSU, CU, ASU, Stanford, OU, USC or UCLA, and a trap game)
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 09:04:41 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:45:09 AM
You do realize that the PAC is a weak Basketball conference over the last 10 years. One final four team over the last 17 years. The same people that make a big deal about PAC championships are the same people that discredit Kansas for the same reasons. As for Johnny's statement about my Basketball accomplishments what does that have to do with anything?
. . . and you do realize that most of the D-1 conferences are even weaker than the Pac, and only a few are stronger. Yet they all play out the season in the hope of winning a conference title and collecting that championship ring. The fact that they don't win the Big One doesn't and won't diminish that accomplishment.
Accomplishments--and failures--have everything to do with the point I'm trying to make. For the players, it's the journey they'll remember . . . for the fans, it's the bottom line, and for many fans, that's a huge disappointment.
If you played the game and earned the memories that came with winning and losing, I think you're in a better position to be objective.
Johnny is right on. The Big-12 has NO cupcakes this year. Kansas should get a ridiculous amount of credit for winning 15 straight conference titles, considering the fact that their conference is so consistent. Nobody else is a National Championship contender, but there are no easy matchups from January through March.
Same goes for the Pac-12. Last year was an exception because everybody was down, but Wazzu and Cal were the only terrible teams. Unlike the Big-10, SEC & ACC, our conference provides around 16 competitive games per year.
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 08:33:53 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 16, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
PAC titles? You make me laugh, thanks I need a good laugh!
Interesting take. You do realize that there's life away from the Dance, don't you.
This is where we run into differences as a fan base. Conference championships and conference tourney titles does not compare to having success in 'The Dance'. Not for a top 5...wait...top 10...no wait...a top 20 program in Arizona. No coach or players is ever content with conference titles. There a forever judged by what they accomplished against the best of the best in March Madness.
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 08:46:00 AM
Quote from: Deb on January 14, 2020, 05:40:18 PM
The title of this thread kinda saddens me. Arizona's showing in March has been dismal the last four seasons, and each year I hope again the Cats can do something postseason. One sweet sixteen, two humiliating first round exits to Wichita St and Buffalo, plus a no show. That is not progressing. Lute had us in the ncaa's for 23 postseasons in a row. Now we have to cross our fingers that three potential draft first rounders and a coach who's been here over a decade can get us a 7-9 seed. When they've yet to show they can win a road game or beat a ranked team.
"Just get there and with some luck, who knows what they can do!" - you say? When has our luck been on the right side of the bounce? If we fail postseason again, we lose 6 or so guys and start with a whole new batch again next year who struggle to learn the packline. But we look good in our OOC vs the creampuffs and so us fans get all excited til we fail to win vs any team with a pulse. And we'll wait for the next big game wishing we can beat someone good so it will verify our dreams of making it to the new low bar of a sweet 16. Cuz God forbid any Zona fan should expect more.
Rinse and repeat.
Given all that you've presented, and for the sake of your mental health, now might be a good time to cut ties. Because rinsing and repeating a mostly successful outcome, one that may not be going away anytime soon, is not such a bad option. Sometimes, just being grateful for what you have, instead of coveting what others have, is in your best interest.
Another issue is a fan base content, rather than reaching goals that are achievable; especially for a program like Arizona who recruits at a top 5 level year after year.
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 09:04:41 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:45:09 AM
You do realize that the PAC is a weak Basketball conference over the last 10 years. One final four team over the last 17 years. The same people that make a big deal about PAC championships are the same people that discredit Kansas for the same reasons. As for Johnny's statement about my Basketball accomplishments what does that have to do with anything?
. . . and you do realize that most of the D-1 conferences are even weaker than the Pac, and only a few are stronger. Yet they all play out the season in the hope of winning a conference title and collecting that championship ring. The fact that they don't win the Big One doesn't and won't diminish that accomplishment.
There are 32 conferences and 6 or 7 fill roughly 80% of the bracket, so it's disingenuous to point to all of D1. The PAC 12 is historically at the bottom 1/3 of those top conferences. Our representation in the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4 and Championship game over the last however many years is proof.
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
Rinse and repeat first round exits and not being invited to the NCAA at all is not a great outcome. A top tier program doesn't Perron to the level the the Cats have over the past 6 years. All the Miller homers need to open their eyes and see the truth. I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong about Miller and the state of the program, when the direction changes.
. . . and we've deserve better because?
Count your blessings, we could be Illini fans, or Marquette Warrior enthusiasts, or even North Carolina fans who regularly experience feast and famine. You, me, none of us have earned shit. We've been spoiled, fans in the right place at the right juncture. All good things come to an end. We've got it better than most, you may come to realize that someday. As a soon-to-be-70-year-old man, who grew up in the Midwest and followed the Chicago Cubs through decades of failures, I already have.
Unbelievably naive take. How many Tourney appearances, Sweet 16s, E8s, Final 4 and NC's has Arizona bee to? We also consistently recruit top classes. Deserve's have nothing to do with it. The program is established; we are no longer a blip on the radar; we have done it before. You would never hear other top programs say something like this? This is something an ASU fan would say and even they would be wrong.
San Francisco, Oklahoma State and Cincinnati have more National titles than we do.
You can't expect to be a blue blood if your only championship game during a season where we finished 5th in the conference.
I value consistency and effort because I don't want to be a one and done like the other U of A (Arkansas).
Quote from: PacSouthwest on January 17, 2020, 12:47:42 PM
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 08:33:53 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 16, 2020, 01:54:30 PM
PAC titles? You make me laugh, thanks I need a good laugh!
Interesting take. You do realize that there's life away from the Dance, don't you.
This is where we run into differences as a fan base. Conference championships and conference tourney titles does not compare to having success in 'The Dance'. Not for a top 5...wait...top 10...no wait...a top 20 program in Arizona. No coach or players is ever content with conference titles. There a forever judged by what they accomplished against the best of the best in March Madness.
Where is it written it has to be all or nothing? Live in the present. Enjoy the good things as they happen.
Quote from: PacSouthwest on January 17, 2020, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
Rinse and repeat first round exits and not being invited to the NCAA at all is not a great outcome. A top tier program doesn't Perron to the level the the Cats have over the past 6 years. All the Miller homers need to open their eyes and see the truth. I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong about Miller and the state of the program, when the direction changes.
. . . and we've deserve better because?
Count your blessings, we could be Illini fans, or Marquette Warrior enthusiasts, or even North Carolina fans who regularly experience feast and famine. You, me, none of us have earned shit. We've been spoiled, fans in the right place at the right juncture. All good things come to an end. We've got it better than most, you may come to realize that someday. As a soon-to-be-70-year-old man, who grew up in the Midwest and followed the Chicago Cubs through decades of failures, I already have.
Unbelievably naive take. How many Tourney appearances, Sweet 16s, E8s, Final 4 and NC's has Arizona bee to? We also consistently recruit top classes. Deserve's have nothing to do with it. The program is established; we are no longer a blip on the radar; we have done it before. You would never hear other top programs say something like this? This is something an ASU fan would say and even they would be wrong.
We are one wrong hire away from becoming an afterthought. We were so-so before our Hall of Fame coach, and may very well revisit average if the fan base ends up running Miller out of town like they did Tomey. The fact that we became established was subsequent to Olson's arrival. He made us winners. What you want is another Hall of Fame coach other than Miller--that is no less naive than being thankful for all our successes, however menial they may be in your world of perfection.
I think Chuck Berry said it best when he sang "go go, go Johnny go go go"
Nice. I was hoping you were t going to reference My Dingaling
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39320370
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: PacSouthwest on January 17, 2020, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
Rinse and repeat first round exits and not being invited to the NCAA at all is not a great outcome. A top tier program doesn't Perron to the level the the Cats have over the past 6 years. All the Miller homers need to open their eyes and see the truth. I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong about Miller and the state of the program, when the direction changes.
. . . and we've deserve better because?
Count your blessings, we could be Illini fans, or Marquette Warrior enthusiasts, or even North Carolina fans who regularly experience feast and famine. You, me, none of us have earned shit. We've been spoiled, fans in the right place at the right juncture. All good things come to an end. We've got it better than most, you may come to realize that someday. As a soon-to-be-70-year-old man, who grew up in the Midwest and followed the Chicago Cubs through decades of failures, I already have.
Unbelievably naive take. How many Tourney appearances, Sweet 16s, E8s, Final 4 and NC's has Arizona bee to? We also consistently recruit top classes. Deserve's have nothing to do with it. The program is established; we are no longer a blip on the radar; we have done it before. You would never hear other top programs say something like this? This is something an ASU fan would say and even they would be wrong.
We are one wrong hire away from becoming an afterthought. We were so-so before our Hall of Fame coach, and may very well revisit average if the fan base ends up running Miller out of town like they did Tomey. The fact that we became established was subsequent to Olson's arrival. He made us winners. What you want is another Hall of Fame coach other than Miller--that is no less naive than being thankful for all our successes, however menial they may be in your world of perfection.
Another stupid take. Kids play for the brand as much as for the coach. Too say Arizona can't hire an established or up-and-comer coach is ridiculous. You want the status quo because you are afraid we can't do better? That's a poor attitude as a fan and in life.
Quote from: PacSouthwest on January 18, 2020, 12:15:46 AM
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Quote from: PacSouthwest on January 17, 2020, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: jumpinjohnny on January 17, 2020, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 17, 2020, 08:51:45 AM
Rinse and repeat first round exits and not being invited to the NCAA at all is not a great outcome. A top tier program doesn't Perron to the level the the Cats have over the past 6 years. All the Miller homers need to open their eyes and see the truth. I'll be the first to admit that I'm wrong about Miller and the state of the program, when the direction changes.
. . . and we've deserve better because?
Count your blessings, we could be Illini fans, or Marquette Warrior enthusiasts, or even North Carolina fans who regularly experience feast and famine. You, me, none of us have earned shit. We've been spoiled, fans in the right place at the right juncture. All good things come to an end. We've got it better than most, you may come to realize that someday. As a soon-to-be-70-year-old man, who grew up in the Midwest and followed the Chicago Cubs through decades of failures, I already have.
Unbelievably naive take. How many Tourney appearances, Sweet 16s, E8s, Final 4 and NC's has Arizona bee to? We also consistently recruit top classes. Deserve's have nothing to do with it. The program is established; we are no longer a blip on the radar; we have done it before. You would never hear other top programs say something like this? This is something an ASU fan would say and even they would be wrong.
We are one wrong hire away from becoming an afterthought. We were so-so before our Hall of Fame coach, and may very well revisit average if the fan base ends up running Miller out of town like they did Tomey. The fact that we became established was subsequent to Olson's arrival. He made us winners. What you want is another Hall of Fame coach other than Miller--that is no less naive than being thankful for all our successes, however menial they may be in your world of perfection.
Another stupid take. Kids play for the brand as much as for the coach. Too say Arizona can't hire an established or up-and-comer coach is ridiculous. You want the status quo because you are afraid we can't do better? That's a poor attitude as a fan and in life.
This is rich.
One never knows whom one is dealing with in this sort of forum. The writer could be a young adult with limited life experience, or an older, frustrated, myopic adult, who can't accept opinions that don't line up with their world view. I'll roll with the second option. The older, wiser, adult, unwilling to accept or even consider other points of view, would be the type to use words such as 'stupid' 'naive' 'ridiculous' et all. I say this in response to the claim that I've offered a ". . . stupid response." I disrespectfully disagree.
"Kids play for the brand as much as for the coach."
Agreed.
"Too say Arizona can't hire an established or up-and-comer coach is ridiculous."
To, not 'too.' If you're going to be a stickler for perfection, set a good example. Anyway, I know we can hire another coach who might possibly prove to be better than Coach Miller, anyone with half a brain could figure that out. What some people fail to grasp, is that becoming a hall of fame coach takes time, and is wrought with bumps in the road. Take Coach O for example. I distinctly remember "fans" dogging him severely after the loss to a Steve Nash led Santa Clara team. Those "fans" called for his head. Maybe you were one of them?
"You want the status quo because you are afraid we can't do better?"
I don't want the status quo, I sometimes accept it because I'm willing to be patient. I don't enjoy losing any more than you do, but sports, like life, runs in cycles, they both have their high and low points. While we as U of A hoops fans haven't experienced the highest of highs under Miller, we certainly haven't had to face the lowest of lows. I think that fact mirrors most of our lives. You may be an exception.
"That's a poor attitude as a fan and in life."
Maybe I'm just too dumb to realize my shortcomings . . . an ignorance is bliss sort of thing.
Quote from: ichi on January 17, 2020, 04:13:59 PM
I think Chuck Berry said it best when he sang "go go, go Johnny go go go"
" . . . Johnny be good."
Smart comment there, Ichi. Smart meaning clever. One attaboy coming up.
isn't there a relationship between coach tenure and success in sports? I just saw a thing about the relative success of the Patriots and Bills that compared the success of one long term coach against the failure of a revolving door search for the right coach
Belichick lost to the fins to end the season and then to the Titans in the first round IIRC, smart money knows not to fire him for a few bad losses
its unfair to characterize the desire to retain a future HOF coach as being afraid to buck the status quo, or as settling.
Miller has shown that he can recruit, he can handle the intense media pressure, has helped put talent into the NBA, he has represented the team and school as well as anyone could have over the last few years, he has a won/loss hovering around .750
I can understand the desire of fans to see the team do better, and I don't fault anyone who thinks we can do better than Miller, I just disagree. But it seems like the replace Miller crowd are very eager to try to throw shade on anyone who thinks we have a great coach and that we need to get behind him. We're not settling or scared of change or worried about rejection or anything, we know we have a good thing in CSM
I hope he wins his first nattie and enter the HOF as a Wildcat.
If the team underperforms for the next 4-6 years, the brand will be tarnished. Couple that with the lingering NCAA investigations your guess is as good as mine if what the future holds. I read an interesting take about the state of the UOfA basketball program stating that the "once feared program is now a shell of itself, and no one fears playing them anymore". The program also has a track record of playing the bottom tier of NCAA program resulting in inflated record. Maybe I was spoiled having a HOF coach directing the program, that had a completely different approach to basketball. Lute played anyone, anywhere and had the stones to say it, now we look forward playing Long Beach State. Hopefully this is an eye opening seasonfor the coaching staff and things change. Maybe I'm wrong and this last five years is variance in sports the next five will be more like Miller's first five.
Quote from: ichi on January 18, 2020, 09:09:32 AM
isn't there a relationship between coach tenure and success in sports? I just saw a thing about the relative success of the Patriots and Bills that compared the success of one long term coach against the failure of a revolving door search for the right coach
Belichick lost to the fins to end the season and then to the Titans in the first round IIRC, smart money knows not to fire him for a few bad losses
its unfair to characterize the desire to retain a future HOF coach as being afraid to buck the status quo, or as settling.
Miller has shown that he can recruit, he can handle the intense media pressure, has helped put talent into the NBA, he has represented the team and school as well as anyone could have over the last few years, he has a won/loss hovering around .750
I can understand the desire of fans to see the team do better, and I don't fault anyone who thinks we can do better than Miller, I just disagree. But it seems like the replace Miller crowd are very eager to try to throw shade on anyone who thinks we have a great coach and that we need to get behind him. We're not settling or scared of change or worried about rejection or anything, we know we have a good thing in CSM
I hope he wins his first nattie and enter the HOF as a Wildcat.
Here here!
The Brand isn't tarnished for the sheer fact that we are consistently winning in ways that matter. All of your "down seasons" recently are including Pac12 Championship Banners, Pac12 Tournament Banners, Top Blue Chip Recruits. There is always something good to talk about with Arizona. More people talk about the positives. In fact, more people talk about the past losing a march madness game or 2 these days than the FBI. I'm sure that will pop up again at some point, but the only thing I personally have heard recently is Bill Walton mention "the Fruitless allegations that kept Miller out of the Oregon game last year".
There are 99.9% of other schools who do not talk about college basketball 365 days a year. For example Alabama talks football 365 days a year and basketball for a few months just like we talk football for a few months.
In conclusion: There is no damage to the brand when you are a winning program. Miller has excelled at making sure we are the best team in the Pac12 top to bottom and March Madness will only make his legacy more complete, but the school and program itself has already been there and done that and hopefully will do it again.
I also think KC Cat made a good point overall. We won it all the year we were 11-7, 5th in the Pac10. March Madness is really fun, but it doesn't define a basketball program more than it celebrates a specific coach and temporary group of players who have an amazing 6 game run which has nothing to do with anything else.
QuoteIf the team underperforms for the next 4-6 years, the brand will be tarnished.
I agree, because Miller's stock will drop as will the stock of our players, which will take us out of the conversation and we'll back in the middle of the PAC, which isn't a selling point to the elites coming up
so I'm willing to wait for the end of his current contract to see where we are, I think when that time comes we'll all review the situation, you'll know if his contract gets renewed
but remember our brand wasn't elite until Lute came along, and if we can't recruit elites maybe we'll rely more on three and four-year guys
my guess is that before Miller's contract is up we'll see some substantial changes to college hoops, lots of pressure to move on from the plantation model
Quote from: arxpert on January 18, 2020, 11:04:18 AM
The Brand isn't tarnished for the sheer fact that we are consistently winning in ways that matter. All of your "down seasons" recently are including Pac12 Championship Banners, Pac12 Tournament Banners, Top Blue Chip Recruits. There is always something good to talk about with Arizona. More people talk about the positives. In fact, more people talk about the past losing a march madness game or 2 these days than the FBI. I'm sure that will pop up again at some point, but the only thing I personally have heard recently is Bill Walton mention "the Fruitless allegations that kept Miller out of the Oregon game last year".
There are 99.9% of other schools who do not talk about college basketball 365 days a year. For example Alabama talks football 365 days a year and basketball for a few months just like we talk football for a few months.
In conclusion: There is no damage to the brand when you are a winning program. Miller has excelled at making sure we are the best team in the Pac12 top to bottom and March Madness will only make his legacy more complete, but the school and program itself has already been there and done that and hopefully will do it again.
I also think KC Cat made a good point overall. We won it all the year we were 11-7, 5th in the Pac10. March Madness is really fun, but it doesn't define a basketball program more than it celebrates a specific coach and temporary group of players who have an amazing 6 game run which has nothing to do with anything else.
Yes
Quote from: Wildcat4life on January 18, 2020, 09:44:12 AM
If the team underperforms for the next 4-6 years, the brand will be tarnished. Couple that with the lingering NCAA investigations your guess is as good as mine if what the future holds. I read an interesting take about the state of the UOfA basketball program stating that the "once feared program is now a shell of itself, and no one fears playing them anymore". The program also has a track record of playing the bottom tier of NCAA program resulting in inflated record. Maybe I was spoiled having a HOF coach directing the program, that had a completely different approach to basketball. Lute played anyone, anywhere and had the stones to say it, now we look forward playing Long Beach State. Hopefully this is an eye opening seasonfor the coaching staff and things change. Maybe I'm wrong and this last five years is variance in sports the next five will be more like Miller's first five.
This is the drum I've been pounding for years . I hate miller's scheduling . They play 6 or 7 cupcakes at home every year and those games do nothing to harden a group of young top recruits . I hate it . Just pulled up a random year 2000 Schedule under lure and look at the difference
vs. Chaminade
Maui Invitational quarterfinal W 97–57 1–0
Lahaina Civic Center
Maui, HI
Nov. 21, 2000*
No. 1 vs. Dayton
Maui Invitational semifinal W 76–59 2–0
Lahaina Civic Center
Maui, HI
Nov. 22, 2000*
No. 1 vs. No. 8 Illinois
Maui Invitational championship W 79–76 3–0
Lahaina Civic Center
Maui, HI
Nov. 25, 2000*
No. 1 at Purdue L 69–72 3–1
Mackey Arena
West Lafayette, Indiana
Nov. 29, 2000*
No. 5 Gonzaga W 101–87 4–1
McKale Center
Tucson, Arizona
Dec. 2, 2000*
No. 5 Saint Mary's W 101–41 5–1
McKale Center
Tucson, Arizona
Dec. 9, 2000*
No. 5 at No. 15 Connecticut L 69–71 5–2
Harry A. Gampel Pavilion
Storrs, Connecticut
Dec. 16, 2000*
No. 7 at No. 5 Illinois L 73–81 5–3
Assembly Hall
Champaign, Illinois
Dec. 20, 2000*
No. 10 LSU W 88–75 6–3
McKale Center
Tucson, Arizona
Dec. 28, 2000*
No. 12 Butler W 72–60 7–3
McKale Center
Tucson, Arizona
Dec. 30, 2000*
No. 12 Mississippi State
First, it is not realistic to schedule only above average teams, so there will always be cupcakes at home. There is definitely a strategy to scheduling though and Miller just needs to schedule smarter. Build a schedule to help your team grow and make sure a win help and a loss does not hurt. A team will never be penalized for a loss against: (1) a Q1 team home or away or (2) a Q2 team on the road. Also, try to limit the lose-lose games; where a win does not help, but a loss hurts (for example a road game against a Q4 team). The 2 biggest factors come March will always be (1) Q1 wins. (2) road wins and (3) Q4 losses.
I wanted to post this because I saw someone ask what the Quadrant system looked like, so here are the metrics (and Arizona's Resume as of Jan 18).
Quadrant 1: Home 1-30 (Colorado), Neutral 1-50, Away 1-75
Quadrant 2: Home 31-75 (Illinois, ASU), Neutral 51-100, Away 76-135
Quadrant 3: Home 76-160, Neutral 101-200, Away 135-240
Quadrant 4: Home 161-353, Neutral 201-353, Away 241-353
Arizona is 1-4 (Q1); 2-1 (Q2) and 0-3 (Road) with 0 Q4 losses.
Quote from: PacSouthwest on January 19, 2020, 02:07:57 PM
I wanted to post this because I saw someone ask what the Quadrant system looked like, so here are the metrics (and Arizona's Resume as of Jan 18).
Quadrant 1: Home 1-30 (Colorado), Neutral 1-50, Away 1-75
Quadrant 2: Home 31-75 (Illinois, ASU), Neutral 51-100, Away 76-135
Quadrant 3: Home 76-160, Neutral 101-200, Away 135-240
Quadrant 4: Home 161-353, Neutral 201-353, Away 241-353
Arizona is 1-4 (Q1); 2-1 (Q2) and 0-3 (Road) with 0 Q4 losses.
Thanks for posting this Pac
Pac 12 Team Sheets (NET) - Updated Jan 19
Net-Team(Record): Road/Q1/Q2/....Q3/Q4Loss
11-Arizona(13-5): 0/1/2....0/0
14-Stanford(15-3): 2/0/2....0/0
16-Oregon(15-4): 3/5/3....1/0
21-Colorado(14-4): 2/3/3....0/0
46-USC(15-3): 4/3/3....1/0
47-UW(12-7): 1/1/2....2/0
62-ASU(11-7): 3/1/3....0/0
67-OSU(12-6): 2/2/0....1/0
80-Utah(10-7): 1/1/4....2/0
100-WSU(12-7): 1/1/1....3/1
138-UCLA(8-9): 1/1/0....2/1
165-Cal(8-10): 0/0/1....3/0
I feel if we were to have played in a tournament with good to great teams in it, then we wouldn't have to worry about Q1 or Q2 wins. The tournament in the Bahamas or Hawaii always seem to have a few good if not great teams in it. The tournament in Cali was a joke and that is a big part of the problem with our schedule. Home-Home series are great but if we played in a decent tournament, then we wouldn't have to worry.
The good thing about the Wooden Tourney is that our team learned to not take the small schools for granted.
Penn and Pepperdine played their asses off...and haven't played that well since. The Cats learned two valuable lessons without earning an "L".
The NIT Tipoff in New York will be nice next year. St. John's (again), Cincy and Texas Tech are all decent opponents that play "tough basketball".
Quote from: KansasCityCats on January 21, 2020, 12:20:28 PM
The good thing about the Wooden Tourney is that our team learned to not take the small schools for granted.
Penn and Pepperdine played their asses off...and haven't played that well since. The Cats learned two valuable lessons without earning an "L".
The NIT Tipoff in New York will be nice next year. St. John's (again), Cincy and Texas Tech are all decent opponents that play "tough basketball".
The problem is a win in that tourney does nothing, but a loss kills you. Just stop scheduling so many cupcakes at home.
We scheduled the top 2 teams in the country and another top 25 in non conference. Scheduling tournaments is a crap shoot. It really wasn't that bad.
Reynolds would schedule tough opponents if they would actually play in McKale.
Gonzaga, Florida, Baylor, Illinois and a few other programs recent did home and homes. I know for a fact that we've extended invitations to many more that are greedy and want neutral sites.
These big tournaments limit our ability to play top tier competition in hostile environments.
This year's schedule is fine. As 2012 mentioned, playing the top two teams in the country deserved some credibility...even though Baylor won't be at the top for long.
As of today, our SOS is positioned in the #22 slot, with a ranking of 8.4
Teams 12 - 16 are tied with a 9.0 ranking.
7 of the top 10 teams are from the Big-10. If we played in the Big-10 our SOS would be a lot higher, and like the schools in that conference, we'd be beat up heading into the dance. We're not, so that information is mostly useless. Still . . .
Quote from: 2012Cat on January 24, 2020, 11:44:20 PM
We scheduled the top 2 teams in the country and another top 25 in non conference. Scheduling tournaments is a crap shoot. It really wasn't that bad.
We got lucky Baylor and Gonzaga turned out to be 2 of the best teams. There is no denying we need more Q1 and road opportunities though. 2 Q1 games and 1 true road game in the Non-conf is not enough. Part of it is the Pac 12. Case in point are these conference intra-play games. The SEC/Big 12 challenge and others. Wish the Pac was better getting out in front of the scheduling problems.
NET - Team (Record): Q1/Q2/Road - Q3/4 L's
9 - Arizona (13-6): 1/3/0 - 0
15 - Stanford (15-3): 1/2/2 - 0
17 - Oregon (16-4): 5/4/3 - 1
18 - Colorado (16-4): 3/5/2 - 1
40 - USC (16-4): 3/5/5 - 1
46 - Washington (12-9): 1/1/1 - 2
57 - ASU (12-7): 1/4/3 - 0
74 - Utah (12-7): 2/3/1 - 2
90 - OSU (12-8): 2/1/2 - 1
109 - WSU (12-9): 1/0/1 - 4
124 - UCLA (9-9): 1/1/2 - 3
166 - Cal (8-10): 0/1/0 - 2
Date: Q1 / Q2 / Road
12/31: 0-2 / 2-1 / 0-1
01/10: 0-3 / 3-1 / 0-2
01/18: 1-4 / 2-1 / 0-3
01/25: 1-5 / 3-2 / 0-4
W..T..F!
Some additional perspective on how bad this season is so far.
Opponent: Q1/Q2/Road
Baylor: 6/4/5 - Are we that much worse than Baylor?
Illinois: 4/2/4 - It's good to see some teams got better.
Non-Tourney Teams
St.Johns: 3/1/1
Providence: 2/3/2
New Mex.St.: 1/0/5
Quote from: PacSouthwest on January 26, 2020, 12:41:00 PM
Some additional perspective on how bad this season is so far.
Opponent: Q1/Q2/Road
Baylor: 6/4/5 - Are we that much worse than Baylor?
Illinois: 4/2/4 - It's good to see some teams got better.
Non-Tourney Teams
St.Johns: 3/1/1
Providence: 2/3/2
New Mex.St.: 1/0/5
I have no idea why you are even on a UofA Fan Forum