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The first choice in our poll was close to Miller's philosophy where he would casts blanket of offers and take the first players to commit

The second choice is Lloyd's philosophy where he is very selective and wants players with high character that fit in with him and the team.

He spent one month on Nembhard, who I assume he thought as a high character guy. So much for that.

I don't mind him being somewhat choosy and wanting players that fit, but imo he has to be less selective.

Quote from: WILD on April 30, 2023, 02:34:17 PM
The first choice in our poll was close to Miller's philosophy where he would casts blanket of offers and take the first players to commit

The second choice is Lloyd's philosophy where he is very selective and wants players with high character that fit in with him and the team.

This poll creates a false narrative and illusion that the 4/5* guys are not high character or that Lloyd wouldn't be caring about who he got, but he is offering players he thinks fit his system either way. They just aren't biting nor buying what he's selling --- or choosing a guaranteed payout instead where they will likely end up in the portal anyway after 1 year if they don't go pro. So what goes around comes around. I'm just a bit disturbed at the prospects he has lost out on to Colorado, USC, and Oregon. It's one thing to lose out to Duke and Kentucky who have the highest payrolls in the Nation. It's another to lose out to other Soft-12 programs.

Get guys that fit his system.

I think there are considerably more talented players that fit his system that we're not publicly linked to.

Again though, coaches should work to get kids that compliment the team and the system.

It's not that 4-5* kids don't have character...it's that most of them don't have the same mentality of culture, family, education and work ethic.

If you grab the first to commit, you'll likely end up with a significant amount of transfers (which is inevitable in a world that now encourages the "portal").

I like the picky recruiting method.  It will take longer to find your "own" 10-12 man roster full of talent that wants to win...but it'll pay off in the end.

Quote from: KansasCityCats on May 01, 2023, 08:17:09 AM
It's not that 4-5* kids don't have character...it's that most of them don't have the same mentality of culture, family, education and work ethic.

If you grab the first to commit, you'll likely end up with a significant amount of transfers (which is inevitable in a world that now encourages the "portal").

I like the picky recruiting method.  It will take longer to find your "own" 10-12 man roster full of talent that wants to win...but it'll pay off in the end.

That is literally not true. That is just your opinion. It's not an evil opinion, but it makes no sense at the core.

There are no 4 or 5 stars that didn't put in the work to be good at basketball. Just being 7ft tall is no longer a meal ticket to the league anymore in the Chef Curry era where everyone is expected to be able to shoot the ball. I think Zach Edey was a 3 star. That's a good example of where giant people land who can't shoot these days.

Plenty of 4 and 5 stars come from all walks of life including from the gutter aka absolutely nothing ranging all the way to a golden child private school since Kindergarten silver spooned life.

In terms of "The System" - The way Tommy runs Mark Few's system, almost anyone in this day in age can plug and play into this offense except someone like Zach Edey.

Ballo is an example of someone who shouldn't be able to play in this system, but even with needing an oxygen tank he can somewhat pull it off. At least for half a season until New Years. Then he appeared gassed out to me the rest of the way. Maybe it was his illnesses. Either way, he was out there on the court playing half as good as he was before New Years and Tommy refused to go to a platoon with Vessar or Dylan to spell Ballo and split the duties. So Tommy chose to leave us all for dead on that hill proverbially. He needs to pull a Koloko and go from 50% FT's to 75% FTs and he will justify his minutes


It used to be an honor to be offered a scholarship by Arizona for Basketball

Everyone needs to remember that sentence and fill in the blank with pretty much any school. This is a pure transactional relationship now.

There are very few types of players who can't fit in this system. It's just coming down to money from my vantage point. The deals are better elsewhere. We can take 80 shots per game from the field if we want to, there's no shortage of shots available or usage rate.

Tommy is missing out on good players to schools in our own conference. That's undeniable.

Even a 3 star player can come to Arizona, play his ass off, raise his stock and bolt for another school for good money knowing that "Philips/Bryant" are coming for his minutes. So the mentality of loyalty or that Arizona is too big to fail needs to change.

We have a roster as things stand. Tommy is only looking to play 6.5 players anyway. So maybe he picks up 1 player that slips through the cracks in the eleventh hour. Let's wait and see as the window for the draft is on it's way to closing.

I'm not assuming that top-tier prospects don't work hard to become recruited at a high level.  I just see how a large portion of them want control of a major program so they can take a significant amount of selfish jumpers and try to raise their NBA stock...as opposed to wanting to "win".

Lloyd if searching for teammates that understand their roles before they come to Arizona.  Dylan was likely told that he was a "project" and based on the way he played in practice, he obviously wasn't ready to spell Ballo's minutes.  Same went for Boswell, although he recovered quickly from injury and was able to contribute because the coach recognized that he was playing at a high D-1 level.

Nobody in the NBA has a stationary Center that stands around in the post.  The fact that Lloyd is "running" with big men hopefully prepares Oumar and other 6'11"+ players for the next level.  Yes, his illness obviously affected him late in the season but his numbers prove that he's moving in the right directly, especially considering the way he played when he first arrived in Tucson (the Red/Blue game didn't give me ANY optimism that Ballo would succeed).

Recruiting is a process so we're likely 4-5 years away from knowing whether this method will be effective in the postseason.  With the exception of the 2010-11 postseason run, Miller needed 5 full years to turn Arizona into a truly competitive team.  He succeeded to an extent and I think Lloyd deserves the same patience.

Quote from: KansasCityCats on May 01, 2023, 11:12:20 AM
I'm not assuming that top-tier prospects don't work hard to become recruited at a high level.  I just see how a large portion of them want control of a major program so they can take a significant amount of selfish jumpers and try to raise their NBA stock...as opposed to wanting to "win".

Lloyd if searching for teammates that understand their roles before they come to Arizona.  Dylan was likely told that he was a "project" and based on the way he played in practice, he obviously wasn't ready to spell Ballo's minutes.  Same went for Boswell, although he recovered quickly from injury and was able to contribute because the coach recognized that he was playing at a high D-1 level.

Nobody in the NBA has a stationary Center that stands around in the post.  The fact that Lloyd is "running" with big men hopefully prepares Oumar and other 6'11"+ players for the next level.  Yes, his illness obviously affected him late in the season but his numbers prove that he's moving in the right directly, especially considering the way he played when he first arrived in Tucson (the Red/Blue game didn't give me ANY optimism that Ballo would succeed).

Recruiting is a process so we're likely 4-5 years away from knowing whether this method will be effective in the postseason.  With the exception of the 2010-11 postseason run, Miller needed 5 full years to turn Arizona into a truly competitive team.  He succeeded to an extent and I think Lloyd deserves the same patience.

Bad take overall. This system has enough shots for anyone and there is no way to defend Tommy Lloyd as a coach if you think he was benching everyone because they wanted to get into the game to actually play the game and not just set a screen then be sent to the bench for flirting with taking a shot --- all while endorsing Kerr to jack up 10 3's per game and brick 9 of them. That indicates to me that Tommy is a weird control freak way more insane than Miller ever was.

My Opinion - Tommy just doesn't know how to coach deep rosters. Gonzaga never had 10 guys who can play high level basketball at the same time. It's very telling in how he has operated thus far. Doesn't even seem like he wants to have that much talent the way he recruits also prompting a "thus" turning Arizona into a Mid Major.

And using the Red/Blue game in any capacity is an Around the Horn insta-mute from Tony Reali

Nah.  Ballo had no business being on a D-1 floor when he entered Tucson and he's now a 1st team all-conference AND the most-improved players (second straight season an Arizona post-player earned that title).  His numbers in the Red/Blue Game were irrelevant; his lack of athleticism was apparent...and now he runs like a completely different player.

Nobody ever plays 10+ minutes for 10+ players.  Gonzaga consistently had 8 guys that played significant minutes throughout the Few tenure and I feel like the Zags made the most of their depth.  They developed the young guys & prepared them to take over as upperclassmen...hence the reason they've made the Sweet 16 in every season since 2012-13.