Tommy's Army

Started by arxpert, June 03, 2023, 01:36:58 AM

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arxpert

This is an official thread to discuss Tommy's army. This isn't a depth chart. This is a food for thought subject that I expect active participation in.

This is where I view the roster when delegated to positions.
Let's leave injuries out of this project.

Point Guards:
Bam Bam Boswell
Jaden Bradley
Conrad Martinez

Shooting Guards:
Caleb Love
Pelle Larsson
KJ Lewis

Small Forwards:
Keshad Johnson
Paulius Murauskas
FillyBerto Borovicanin

Power Forwards:
Oumar Ballo
Henri Veesaar

Centers:
Dylan Anderson
Krivas

Many will fight tooth and nail about me putting Ballo at PF, but that's what his true size is. He is a load undoubtedly, but he is not that true 6'11" to 7'1" Center that he is being made out to be and that is perfectly fine. He is effective only up until Hack-A-Ballo ensues. So if Tommy can get Ballo to take the leap from 50% FT shooting to 75% then there isn't much problem with Ballo's assumed minutes. That is a BIG "IF".

1) How do you think Tommy is going to handle this situation?

2) How does Tommy keep this group happy?

3) What are the most likely lineups to emerge? Starting 5 is very irrelevant in my very humble opinion. What are the impact rotations you see when you look at this positional chart?

4) How Stubborn is Tommy allowed to be this season about how many players are getting minutes and roles now that he has built a roster on his own by large at this point? There's really no automatic way to determine anything by default now.

So be honest about it here in the forum.

I am left perplexed as to who is going to defend the shield and carry the axe into battle.

Right now I view us having an issue at the 3 spot.

Does Tommy go 2 PGs, 1 SG, then 1 PF, 1 C?

Or is Tommy thinking of going 1 PG, 2 SG, 1 SF, 1 PF/C

Keshad Johnson didn't leave SDSU to do nothing.
Jaden Bradley didn't leave Alabama to do nothing.
Caleb Love certainly didn't choose Arizona do be buried.

They will all be playing significant minutes. It's a bit more to manage than just Henderson and Ramey while burying Bal all things considered.

KJ Lewis may show up and be far better than expected. Then what? What if KJ is cooking Love, Bradley, Pelle, and Bam Bam in practice? What if KJ outright embarrasses these guys in the Red Blue Game in front of live fans? Will Tommy even allow it to show it's face on the court in live games?

Will Tommy automatically be stifling talent aka letting Paulius, Krivas, and C-Mart use Arizona as a means to just be paid to develop and practice before they try to go pro domestically or abroad either back to Euro leagues or even Australian or Asian leagues as I have noticed some College talent has bolted for contracts without even playing for the Cats?

I'm assuming Filly-B is stuck in limbo. Shouldn't he get a chance to play? What is he doing on the team if there's no chance?

How much more can Dylan and Veesaar take of not being able to play? I feel they need to get a real shot to play this season or what is the point for them? They are not "Kirk Walters". They are legitimate basketball players.

Let's all try to figure this out because Tommy is not going to be able to hide behind 6.5 players this season.

mvpreed2

I have been saying that this roster is going to rely heavily on KB/JB/CL and OB.
KJ/PL are going to be in that next tier of minutes.
After that, DA/HV are going to fight for those reserve minutes as bigs.
The four members of the 2023 class are going to have to scrap for theirs.

The wildcard here is FB.
6'8 F that SHOULD have stepped into more reps at SF, but it appears he is going to get jumped by KJ and another SF behind him (PM) coming in.
This season is going to tell me a lot of about his future on this team.
If PM jumps him in the rotation, then he is not good enough.

Point: Lloyd is going to rely on that 6-8 man rotation again this season unless someone from that 2023 class is able to make that jump because no one from the 2022 class appears to have made the jump in development because they got over-recruited by a veteran or an incoming freshman.
#BearDown
4-11-2011
9-14-2012
2-19-2013
7-29-2014

Deb

Quote from: arxpert on June 03, 2023, 01:36:58 AMThis is an official thread to discuss Tommy's army. This isn't a depth chart. This is a food for thought subject that I expect active participation in.

This is where I view the roster when delegated to positions.
Let's leave injuries out of this project.

Point Guards:
Bam Bam Boswell
Jaden Bradley
Conrad Martinez

Shooting Guards:
Caleb Love
Pelle Larsson
KJ Lewis

Small Forwards:
Keshad Johnson
Paulius Murauskas
FillyBerto Borovicanin

Power Forwards:
Oumar Ballo
Henri Veesaar

Centers:
Dylan Anderson
Krivas

Many will fight tooth and nail about me putting Ballo at PF, but that's what his true size is. He is a load undoubtedly, but he is not that true 6'11" to 7'1" Center that he is being made out to be and that is perfectly fine. He is effective only up until Hack-A-Ballo ensues. So if Tommy can get Ballo to take the leap from 50% FT shooting to 75% then there isn't much problem with Ballo's assumed minutes. That is a BIG "IF".

1) How do you think Tommy is going to handle this situation?

2) How does Tommy keep this group happy?

3) What are the most likely lineups to emerge? Starting 5 is very irrelevant in my very humble opinion. What are the impact rotations you see when you look at this positional chart?

4) How Stubborn is Tommy allowed to be this season about how many players are getting minutes and roles now that he has built a roster on his own by large at this point? There's really no automatic way to determine anything by default now.

So be honest about it here in the forum.

I am left perplexed as to who is going to defend the shield and carry the axe into battle.

Right now I view us having an issue at the 3 spot.

Does Tommy go 2 PGs, 1 SG, then 1 PF, 1 C?

Or is Tommy thinking of going 1 PG, 2 SG, 1 SF, 1 PF/C

Keshad Johnson didn't leave SDSU to do nothing.
Jaden Bradley didn't leave Alabama to do nothing.
Caleb Love certainly didn't choose Arizona do be buried.

They will all be playing significant minutes. It's a bit more to manage than just Henderson and Ramey while burying Bal all things considered.

KJ Lewis may show up and be far better than expected. Then what? What if KJ is cooking Love, Bradley, Pelle, and Bam Bam in practice? What if KJ outright embarrasses these guys in the Red Blue Game in front of live fans? Will Tommy even allow it to show it's face on the court in live games?

Will Tommy automatically be stifling talent aka letting Paulius, Krivas, and C-Mart use Arizona as a means to just be paid to develop and practice before they try to go pro domestically or abroad either back to Euro leagues or even Australian or Asian leagues as I have noticed some College talent has bolted for contracts without even playing for the Cats?

I'm assuming Filly-B is stuck in limbo. Shouldn't he get a chance to play? What is he doing on the team if there's no chance?

How much more can Dylan and Veesaar take of not being able to play? I feel they need to get a real shot to play this season or what is the point for them? They are not "Kirk Walters". They are legitimate basketball players.

Let's all try to figure this out because Tommy is not going to be able to hide behind 6.5 players this season.


wc


FOOS

Quote from: Deb on June 03, 2023, 09:14:11 AM
Quote from: arxpert on June 03, 2023, 01:36:58 AMThis is an official thread to discuss Tommy's army. This isn't a depth chart. This is a food for thought subject that I expect active participation in.

This is where I view the roster when delegated to positions.
Let's leave injuries out of this project.

Point Guards:
Bam Bam Boswell
Jaden Bradley
Conrad Martinez

Shooting Guards:
Caleb Love
Pelle Larsson
KJ Lewis

Small Forwards:
Keshad Johnson
Paulius Murauskas
FillyBerto Borovicanin

Power Forwards:
Oumar Ballo
Henri Veesaar

Centers:
Dylan Anderson
Krivas

Many will fight tooth and nail about me putting Ballo at PF, but that's what his true size is. He is a load undoubtedly, but he is not that true 6'11" to 7'1" Center that he is being made out to be and that is perfectly fine. He is effective only up until Hack-A-Ballo ensues. So if Tommy can get Ballo to take the leap from 50% FT shooting to 75% then there isn't much problem with Ballo's assumed minutes. That is a BIG "IF".

1) How do you think Tommy is going to handle this situation?

2) How does Tommy keep this group happy?

3) What are the most likely lineups to emerge? Starting 5 is very irrelevant in my very humble opinion. What are the impact rotations you see when you look at this positional chart?

4) How Stubborn is Tommy allowed to be this season about how many players are getting minutes and roles now that he has built a roster on his own by large at this point? There's really no automatic way to determine anything by default now.

So be honest about it here in the forum.

I am left perplexed as to who is going to defend the shield and carry the axe into battle.

Right now I view us having an issue at the 3 spot.

Does Tommy go 2 PGs, 1 SG, then 1 PF, 1 C?

Or is Tommy thinking of going 1 PG, 2 SG, 1 SF, 1 PF/C

Keshad Johnson didn't leave SDSU to do nothing.
Jaden Bradley didn't leave Alabama to do nothing.
Caleb Love certainly didn't choose Arizona do be buried.

They will all be playing significant minutes. It's a bit more to manage than just Henderson and Ramey while burying Bal all things considered.

KJ Lewis may show up and be far better than expected. Then what? What if KJ is cooking Love, Bradley, Pelle, and Bam Bam in practice? What if KJ outright embarrasses these guys in the Red Blue Game in front of live fans? Will Tommy even allow it to show it's face on the court in live games?

Will Tommy automatically be stifling talent aka letting Paulius, Krivas, and C-Mart use Arizona as a means to just be paid to develop and practice before they try to go pro domestically or abroad either back to Euro leagues or even Australian or Asian leagues as I have noticed some College talent has bolted for contracts without even playing for the Cats?

I'm assuming Filly-B is stuck in limbo. Shouldn't he get a chance to play? What is he doing on the team if there's no chance?

How much more can Dylan and Veesaar take of not being able to play? I feel they need to get a real shot to play this season or what is the point for them? They are not "Kirk Walters". They are legitimate basketball players.

Let's all try to figure this out because Tommy is not going to be able to hide behind 6.5 players this season.



So funny !!

LeftCoastCats

Q: What if the Queen had a penis?
A: Then he'd be the King.

(That response to non-sequitur was more obvious 5+ years ago).

"What if" questions like the one presented about KJ are impossible to answer and generally unnecessary. If KJ shows up and lights up our guards, who the hell knows what'll happen.

Ballo is a center, period. Dwight Howard is a generous 6'10. Bam Adebayo, Christian Wood, and a handful of others are starting or high impact 6'9 centers in the NBA.

Ballo is a handful downlow and is easily one of the best pure centers in the nation and the best one in the PAC12. He sure as hell isn't a 4/PF/Wing.

Tommy runs most of his sets out of a "4 out - 1 in" motion, and I promise Ballo will always be the "1" in the 4-1 set when he's on the court. Even during Tommy's awesome Hi-Lo, that doesn't require two bigs running it. Keshad and Ballo can easily make that work. Moreover I see quite a few minutes that have a Ballo/HV and Ballo/Paulius lineup - giving the nod to two 6'8+ guys playing with each other at the same time.

The more interesting question of lineups/playing time; I foresee the following getting the bulk of the available 200 minutes, in order:

28+ minute tier:
Boswell
Love
Ballo
Pelle

20-28 minute tier:
Keshad
Bradley

10-20 minute tier:
Paulius
Henri

Less than 10 tier:
KJ
Dylan
Filip

20/20 guys (up 20/down 20)
Conrad
Krivas
Little Zu?

Lineup at the end of the game

1) Boswell
2) Love
3) Pelle
4) Keshad
5) Ballo

I love this team on paper so much more than last seasons, based on versatility and toughness factors alone. I really hope this becomes the expected makeup of a Tommy style roster going forward.

If Boswell becomes the archetype of a Tommy Lloyd player - I'm all in.


CactusCat

Quote from: LeftCoastCats on June 03, 2023, 10:58:38 PMQ: What if the Queen had a penis?



A: Please DM me pictures.
"You guys over estimate how smart i am ." -t. lloyd

arxpert

Quote from: LeftCoastCats on June 03, 2023, 10:58:38 PMQ: What if the Queen had a penis?
A: Then he'd be the King.

(That response to non-sequitur was more obvious 5+ years ago).

"What if" questions like the one presented about KJ are impossible to answer and generally unnecessary. If KJ shows up and lights up our guards, who the hell knows what'll happen.

Ballo is a center, period. Dwight Howard is a generous 6'10. Bam Adebayo, Christian Wood, and a handful of others are starting or high impact 6'9 centers in the NBA.

Ballo is a handful downlow and is easily one of the best pure centers in the nation and the best one in the PAC12. He sure as hell isn't a 4/PF/Wing.

Tommy runs most of his sets out of a "4 out - 1 in" motion, and I promise Ballo will always be the "1" in the 4-1 set when he's on the court. Even during Tommy's awesome Hi-Lo, that doesn't require two bigs running it. Keshad and Ballo can easily make that work. Moreover I see quite a few minutes that have a Ballo/HV and Ballo/Paulius lineup - giving the nod to two 6'8+ guys playing with each other at the same time.

The more interesting question of lineups/playing time; I foresee the following getting the bulk of the available 200 minutes, in order:

28+ minute tier:
Boswell
Love
Ballo
Pelle

20-28 minute tier:
Keshad
Bradley

10-20 minute tier:
Paulius
Henri

Less than 10 tier:
KJ
Dylan
Filip

20/20 guys (up 20/down 20)
Conrad
Krivas
Little Zu?

Lineup at the end of the game

1) Boswell
2) Love
3) Pelle
4) Keshad
5) Ballo

I love this team on paper so much more than last seasons, based on versatility and toughness factors alone. I really hope this becomes the expected makeup of a Tommy style roster going forward.

If Boswell becomes the archetype of a Tommy Lloyd player - I'm all in.



Given your analysis, I will ask what you thought when you saw Tommy starting to deploy Koloko and Ballo together in Year 1 down the stretch and rolling with that strategy into March Madness. He has put Ballo at the 4 before.

There is a point to "What If" because this is part of the Tommy Lloyd stubbornness factor. Are we going to see it this year or is Tommy going to be playing 9-10 players and finding impact lineups per matchups and actually "coach" the game, in-game, and not just say "you guys are my 6-7 dudes, go out there and give them your best shot". Coaching a roster like this should mean finding ways to consistently matchup with each unique opponent. It's different than the first 2 seasons. As you mentioned liking the team composition on paper, it does visually appear like a more full tool kit. Will Tommy use all the tools? It's a valid concern as Tommy is now in Year 3 and expected by most to take a gigantic intellectual coaching leap after learning some tough lessons running his teams into the ground the last 2 years.


LeftCoastCats

Quote from: arxpert on June 04, 2023, 11:04:34 AM
Quote from: LeftCoastCats on June 03, 2023, 10:58:38 PMQ: What if the Queen had a penis?
A: Then he'd be the King.

(That response to non-sequitur was more obvious 5+ years ago).

"What if" questions like the one presented about KJ are impossible to answer and generally unnecessary. If KJ shows up and lights up our guards, who the hell knows what'll happen.

Ballo is a center, period. Dwight Howard is a generous 6'10. Bam Adebayo, Christian Wood, and a handful of others are starting or high impact 6'9 centers in the NBA.

Ballo is a handful downlow and is easily one of the best pure centers in the nation and the best one in the PAC12. He sure as hell isn't a 4/PF/Wing.

Tommy runs most of his sets out of a "4 out - 1 in" motion, and I promise Ballo will always be the "1" in the 4-1 set when he's on the court. Even during Tommy's awesome Hi-Lo, that doesn't require two bigs running it. Keshad and Ballo can easily make that work. Moreover I see quite a few minutes that have a Ballo/HV and Ballo/Paulius lineup - giving the nod to two 6'8+ guys playing with each other at the same time.

The more interesting question of lineups/playing time; I foresee the following getting the bulk of the available 200 minutes, in order:

28+ minute tier:
Boswell
Love
Ballo
Pelle

20-28 minute tier:
Keshad
Bradley

10-20 minute tier:
Paulius
Henri

Less than 10 tier:
KJ
Dylan
Filip

20/20 guys (up 20/down 20)
Conrad
Krivas
Little Zu?

Lineup at the end of the game

1) Boswell
2) Love
3) Pelle
4) Keshad
5) Ballo

I love this team on paper so much more than last seasons, based on versatility and toughness factors alone. I really hope this becomes the expected makeup of a Tommy style roster going forward.

If Boswell becomes the archetype of a Tommy Lloyd player - I'm all in.



Given your analysis, I will ask what you thought when you saw Tommy starting to deploy Koloko and Ballo together in Year 1 down the stretch and rolling with that strategy into March Madness. He has put Ballo at the 4 before.

There is a point to "What If" because this is part of the Tommy Lloyd stubbornness factor. Are we going to see it this year or is Tommy going to be playing 9-10 players and finding impact lineups per matchups and actually "coach" the game, in-game, and not just say "you guys are my 6-7 dudes, go out there and give them your best shot". Coaching a roster like this should mean finding ways to consistently matchup with each unique opponent. It's different than the first 2 seasons. As you mentioned liking the team composition on paper, it does visually appear like a more full tool kit. Will Tommy use all the tools? It's a valid concern as Tommy is now in Year 3 and expected by most to take a gigantic intellectual coaching leap after learning some tough lessons running his teams into the ground the last 2 years.



They ran a lot of Hi-Lo based out of a 3 out 2 low traditional look allowing for great perimeter spacing, if I remember correctly, the whole twin towers construct - but I'm fuzzy on that. Defensively, Loko would always be assigned the perimeter player whereas Ballo would stay on the block. Truly allowed Loko the ability to showcase that incredible aspect to his game. I think Ballo was the acting center in that set, but I could be wrong. There's no benefit to putting Ballo on the perimeter. If HV or Dylan play alongside Ballo, given their offensive skillset - Ballo would once again be playing the 5.

I don't get hung up on height. KD is 7 feet tall, and is a wing and can never play the 5 outside of international play - even when the shorter Biyombo/Landale guys are in for Ayton.

As far as rotation goes, I believe Tommy will go 10-11 deep for the majority of the non conference before tightening it up to 9 in conference and will get his 8 man rotation locked in by the tournament. I too wish he played Bal and Henri more this past year.

I keep referencing the NBA, but Denver is on its way to a championship by largely utilizing a 7 man rotation (in Denver no less). They really only go 8 in blowouts this post season. The 7-8 man rotation is the norm in important games. Our guys are well conditioned and have no problem playing 35+ minutes whenever needed.

I'm not hung up on the short rotations in key games. I am more hopeful that this year Tommy is more willing to go 10-11 deep early in the season, play with different lineup configurations etc and give a longer leash to those players to give them the fair chance to figure it out.

KansasCityCats

Great breakdown, LCC.  I agree with everything, except I do think it may become more common to see Lloyd mix it up and have two bigs in the post this season (assuming Dylan and Henri develop and earn minutes). 

We have 5 really good guards that should eat up minutes, with Boswell/Love/Larsson on the floor for a majority of the game.  When Keshad isn't playing the PF spot, there's a good chance that Lloyd will try to beat opponents with size and deploy two 7-footers.

It'll be interesting to see how minutes are distributed for the #5-#11 guys on the depth chart because this roster is different from anything we've seen in the past.  Looking forward to October!


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