Arizona's season is officially over with no NIT invite

[Teamgame]

The makeup of college basketball is vastly different today then Lute's tenure as a head coach. During Lute's stewardship players stayed longer and didn't leave High School early. Players are younger and younger, combine that with early departure and development is difficult. As I've stated in the past.... the single position that would have made a difference 8 of the last 10 years is PG- which Miller has done poorly recruiting.                                                                                                           As for coach Altman I would agree he is an above average coach, but will allow almost any type of behavior as long as they win.                                           Everyone misses Lute, but he was once in a generation coach.

[Teamgame]

Liquidated- keep knocking my Karma down and I might catch you in 2021. 😋

[eggdog]

Nevermind that we have a better winning percentage against a tougher strength of schedule over the last 3 years than Oregon, including the disastrous season we just had. If I remember correctly not one player under Lute left after one year. There are also going to be more misses when you have to bring in 5-6 guys every year instead of 3-4 or however many were coming in under Lute. It sucks because you need a 5 star kid to win it all but they're gone before you know it and you've got to build around the next one. The only other option is to go after transfers, something Altman has done well, so maybe that's something to consider, though they haven't all worked out for us and aren't here as long either. Hopefully getting rid of the rule will get things closer to how they were before.

[lynxaz]

No one believes your dribble   

Dribble...I was pretty good at that.

'Drivel' (which is what I think you meant) is 'nonsense'.

But I am speaking in measurable facts. This is the worst Wildcat team since Ben Lindsey in the worst power five conference ever based on OOC winning %.

Miller's recruiting has been terrible outside of the OND's - do you dispute that? Not a single Wildcat was even honorable mention ALL conference. When is the last time that happened? Keep in mind that every recruited player we have was recruited and committed and signed BEFORE the Schlabach story, except for Williams. And the two players who did not come, did nothing for their respective programs this year. 
https://pac-12.com/article/2019/03/10/pac-12-announces-2018-19-mens-basketball-all-conference-teams

I get it. No one likes the message...but no one can refute it. I cite facts, stats and results and yet everyone is mad at me because they refuse to believe that is in front of their eyes. OK.

The context I was thinking was drool coming down your lips and used dribble. I still think it works well in your case.

Anyway .. Everyone knows CB landscapes has changed since Lute. Look everywhere scheduling home and homes to 1 and done players to recruiting ratings, evento how the game is actually being played.
Nothing ever will be like when Lute Coached get over it man.

Yes we have had some bad year and luck injuries Eg Ray Smith. No fact reports from espn that wiped the class out etc etc but after putting up with all of this we still STAND by Miller.

Get over it and stop comparing everything to Lute, it's worst than a simple grammar error stop the dribble!

[eggdog]

You keep talking about AZ good and forget under Lute 30 players transferred because they weren't "AZ good". Miller has brought in just as much talent in his time here the problem is they just don't stay like they used to. Here's a list of some of the players Lute brought in who he thought were AZ good.

JP Prince #4 point guard
Jawann McClellan 5 star
Deron Johnson
Chris Rodgers 5 star
Chris Dunn
Isaiah Fox
Donnell Harris
Kirk Walters
Dennis Latimore
Mustafa Shakur #1 point guard
Andrew Zahn 
Traves Wilson 
Luke Recker
Mark Georgeson
Ed Stokes
Casey Schmidt
Brian David
Etdrick Bohannon
Jarvis Kelley
Marty Barmentloo
Travis Hanour
Andrew Zahn
Daniel Dillon
Fendi Onobon
Mohammed Tangara

[KansasCityCats]

The Oregon comparison is salient...

Altman arrived a year after Miller...

But Altman inherited a basketball wasteland... zero tradition very little success... they have become a top conference program and a final four team.

Altman has several big time wins against Miller at McKale and when ranked much lower. He has beaten three top 10 AZ teams, one of them at McKale and once when he was not even ranked.

This is now a ten year trend... Oregon is landing better and better recruits, Altman is consistently beating Miller and consistently competing for the PAC12 championship.

This is Oregons 6th tournament under Altman (9 years) - that is the same number that they went to between 1960 and 2010 - the previous FIFTY years.   

Miller inherited a blue chip program with tournament caliber talent already on his team. Big difference there...

The 'thugs' in Oregon's program (I assume you mean the gang rape case that saw several players dismissed only after Altman protected them and played them in the tournaments - which was wrong) were all, to a person acquitted in a an actual court of law of any wrong doing. That does not excuse Altman playing them, nor am I arguing that they are up standing citizens, but they are also not the 'thugs' they are portrayed as..and given recent events at Arizona, I don't think we should be throwing any rocks from our glass house.  Miller had to be forced to remove Pitts and he was not acquitted.

We've gone over this before.  Altman inherited a program that had more talent than when Miller arrived in Tucson.  Fogg, Lavender, Horne, Judkins, Jacobson and Shumpert (walk-on) were the ONLY players returning in APRIL 2009 until Miller convinced Wise to stay.  Under any other head coach, that roster would have been lucky to win 5 conference games...and the Cats finished 4th (with a last-minute Top-10 recruiting class).

The "Blue Chip Program" that was built by Lute...was almost destroyed by Lute because he kept the stroke to himself & the timing almost allowed Arizona Basketball to slip away.  If Floyd, O'Neill or Pastner had taken over, the Wildcats would be known as a "one hit wonder" for making a miraculous run in the 1997 postseason...not sure if we'd ever recover again.

Altman was aware of the Bigby-Williams rape, Cook+Abdule-Bassit shoplifting and Austin's prior history (before the Austin/Dotson/Artis rape(s)).  Throw in the Dorsey/Artis/Carter issues and Arizona's issues seem non-existent.

It's Altman's fault that the Ducks had "lesser talent".  If he could recruit like Miller (and keep his players from constantly transferring), he'd likely be a National Championship contender on an annual basis.  For reference, Miller has landed the #1, #22, #3, #9, #3, #3, #11, #3, #4, #32 and #6 classes per 247.  Regardless of their performance, our fanbase has a reason to be excited before every season...which is the exact opposite of any other Pac-12 program.

[Teamgame]

If you take the average of Miller's recruiting classes it's 7.8 nationally. Maybe it's not a coincidence that Miller has  made the elite 8 and a few plays away from a final four. Miller is achieving exactly what his class ranking are. For example Duke, Kentucky have average class rating higher then Arizona and have made a final four. Villanova has achieved more with less, but they are rarely loading up every single year. Hopefully Miller's final four soon. Secondly, all the top teams have had stability amongst the coaching staff which AZ hasn't over the last  four years.

[Liquidated]

  No fact reports from espn that wiped the class out etc etc but after putting up with all of this we still STAND by Miller.

ESPN REPORTS HAD NOTHING, NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THIS YEAR. If Quinerly and O'Neill had both shown up we would would have had the exact same record/performance we did. All of the other players like Bol and Little were committed and had signed their LOI's LONG BEFORE the Schlabach story.

The ESPN stuff is a windmill for ignorant fans to tilt at and a scapegoat for Miller supporter to blame but it had NOTHING whatespver to do with how bad we were. The cracks were already there...re-watch those games in the Bahamas last year when we lost to 3 very mediocre teams.

[Liquidated]

You keep talking about AZ good and forget under Lute 30 players transferred because they weren't "AZ good". Miller has brought in just as much talent in his time here the problem is they just don't stay like they used to. Here's a list of some of the players Lute brought in who he thought were AZ good.

JP Prince #4 point guard
Jawann McClellan 5 star
Deron Johnson
Chris Rodgers 5 star
Chris Dunn
Isaiah Fox
Donnell Harris
Kirk Walters
Dennis Latimore
Mustafa Shakur #1 point guard
Andrew Zahn
Traves Wilson
Luke Recker
Mark Georgeson
Ed Stokes
Casey Schmidt
Brian David
Etdrick Bohannon
Jarvis Kelley
Marty Barmentloo
Travis Hanour
Andrew Zahn
Daniel Dillon
Fendi Onobon
Mohammed Tangara

I am not certain what your point is...this list spans 3 decades and three decades in which we went to four final fours and won a national championship...Miller's list which is as long or longer and barely spans 1 decade.

Very few of these players started - almost all of Miller's starters since 2011-2012 have been either busts or OND's.

At least 6 of the guys do not belong on this list of 'busts'. Every single one of these guys would start for this years team over any player we have at their positions.
Chris Rodgers 5 star
Isaiah Fox
Mustafa Shakur #1 point guard
Ed Stokes
Brian David (started for a final four team...)
Daniel Dillon

Shakur is special case - IMO he was a bust, but he was still better than every PG Miller has had, except for TJ.

Further, a lot of these guys were recruited to be backups. No one ever thought Travis Hanour would be anything other than the 10th guy off the bench. Same for Schmitt, Wilson, Zahn...  Miller relies on guys like that as starters.

I never said anything about Lute never having a few busts...but they were the exception and to the norm. The proportion with Miller has been inverted...and I have noted, repeatedly, that a handful of busts is not a reason to fire Miller. But the pattern of an overwhelming majority of busts is.

[Liquidated]

The Oregon comparison is salient...

Altman arrived a year after Miller...

But Altman inherited a basketball wasteland... zero tradition very little success... they have become a top conference program and a final four team.

Altman has several big time wins against Miller at McKale and when ranked much lower. He has beaten three top 10 AZ teams, one of them at McKale and once when he was not even ranked.

This is now a ten year trend... Oregon is landing better and better recruits, Altman is consistently beating Miller and consistently competing for the PAC12 championship.

This is Oregons 6th tournament under Altman (9 years) - that is the same number that they went to between 1960 and 2010 - the previous FIFTY years.   

Miller inherited a blue chip program with tournament caliber talent already on his team. Big difference there...

The 'thugs' in Oregon's program (I assume you mean the gang rape case that saw several players dismissed only after Altman protected them and played them in the tournaments - which was wrong) were all, to a person acquitted in a an actual court of law of any wrong doing. That does not excuse Altman playing them, nor am I arguing that they are up standing citizens, but they are also not the 'thugs' they are portrayed as..and given recent events at Arizona, I don't think we should be throwing any rocks from our glass house.  Miller had to be forced to remove Pitts and he was not acquitted.

We've gone over this before.  Altman inherited a program that had more talent than when Miller arrived in Tucson.  Fogg, Lavender, Horne, Judkins, Jacobson and Shumpert (walk-on) were the ONLY players returning in APRIL 2009 until Miller convinced Wise to stay.  Under any other head coach, that roster would have been lucky to win 5 conference games...and the Cats finished 4th (with a last-minute Top-10 recruiting class).

The "Blue Chip Program" that was built by Lute...was almost destroyed by Lute because he kept the stroke to himself & the timing almost allowed Arizona Basketball to slip away.  If Floyd, O'Neill or Pastner had taken over, the Wildcats would be known as a "one hit wonder" for making a miraculous run in the 1997 postseason...not sure if we'd ever recover again.

Altman was aware of the Bigby-Williams rape, Cook+Abdule-Bassit shoplifting and Austin's prior history (before the Austin/Dotson/Artis rape(s)).  Throw in the Dorsey/Artis/Carter issues and Arizona's issues seem non-existent.

It's Altman's fault that the Ducks had "lesser talent".  If he could recruit like Miller (and keep his players from constantly transferring), he'd likely be a National Championship contender on an annual basis.  For reference, Miller has landed the #1, #22, #3, #9, #3, #3, #11, #3, #4, #32 and #6 classes per 247.  Regardless of their performance, our fanbase has a reason to be excited before every season...which is the exact opposite of any other Pac-12 program.

We did go over this before and you were wrong then and are wrong now and continue to prove my point. Altman HAD NOTHING when he got to Oregon. He had no fan base, no players, no culture, no pride, no history. Ernie kent had coached that team into oblivion. AZ was LOADED when Miller got here, comparatively. We had history, pride,  a brand, honor, talent, fan base....We were in down cycle but AZ's down cycle was 50 miles above Oregon at its very lowest. Now Oregon is better than AZ as a program and it is not even close and we are lower now than we were when Miller arrived.

Oregon has consistently outperformed AZ with lessor ranked recruiting classes. Just look at your list and tell me again how Altman has a wining record against Miller? How he has beaten Miller 3 times when AZ was atop ten team and Oregon was ranked lower? How he has 4 or 5 wins AT McKale..who have they sent to NBA? How many one and dones have gone to Oregon before Bol? Its actually worse than this.

Incidentally, the 3 Oregon players were all acquitted of the big rape case you cite...in an actual court of law and they won lawsuits against the University in the process.